Mega Dose Thiamine: Starter Tips & Guideline; How To Start High-Dose Thiamine (Vitamin B1); Thiamine Protocols & Nutritional Interactions
elliot overton's HDT high dose thiamine guideline/protocol and tips and links to more products in his product line incl a complex of 4 forms of thiamine and key supplemental cofactors
teasers
localized "deficiency" can occur in the heart, the brain, the gut, etc. for example, in neurodegenerative diseases, the research suggests localized "deficiency" in the brain. in such cases, taking normal doses of thiamine is not enough, to see improvements generally require anywhere from 300-2000x the RDA (300mg to 2000mg, depending on the form and absorbability of thiamine used).
you want to start anywhere from 10 and 50mg per day and slowly and incrementally build your way up. the effective dose will differ from person to person and depends on the form of thiamine. with HCl you need higher doses as it is not as well absorbed, whereas benfotiamine is better absorbed, so the average effective dose is 300-1200mg, and with TTFD/sulbutiamine, you need much less 200-500mg.
search: elliot overton guide to high dose thiamine HDT
Elliot Overton | How to start high dose thiamine? - What form to use? - What dosage to start with and what time to take it? - What is the Paradox? | Instagram
How to start high dose thiamine?
- What form to use?
- What dosage to start with and what time to take it?
- What is the Paradox?
- What are the supporting nutrients you need?
- Should you combine different forms?
- Which brands to use?
I answer all of these questions in 8 minutes in this new video:
How To Start High-Dose Thiamine (Vitamin B1)
jan 2023 EONutrition
high dose thiamine
Overton's one-stop shop HDT products: https://www.objectivenutrients.com/products/
Download complete $55 HDT protocol (pdf): https://thiamineprotocols.com/
2:00 you want to start anywhere between 10 and 50mg per day and build from there slowly and incrementally build your way up. the effective dose will differ from person to person, and depends on the form of thiamine. with HCl you need higher doses as it is not as well absorbed, whereas with benfotiamine is better absorbed, so the average effective dose is 300-1200mg and with TTFD/sulbutiamine, you need much less 200-500mg. these are averages, some will need higher or lower dosages.
3:31 it doesnt matter when you take them, all at once or spread out through the day. be aware of the paradoxal reaction, especially pronounced with a thiamine deficiency incl headache, fatigue, restlessness, anxiety, unwellness.
6:13 my facebook group has members discussing how to negotiate paradoxical reactions.
6:40 it works well to mix the forms of thiamine as each form does something slightly different. mixing forms can be beneficial and there are a lot of ways to do it. i have mixed four forms in a high dose complex called thiamega. some find it works better than just one form.
my question /comment
do all forms taste equally bitter when you open the powder into joghurt/kefir? how slowly and gradually can many safely up the dosage? 10-50mg increments every day or every 2-3 days or 7 days? that's one key i havent yet heard in any video.
comments
--Three weeks into a mix of thiamine nitrate (500mg daily) and benfotiamine (600mg daily) the numbness, pins and needles and stabbing pains in my toes mainly has stopped, ceased, gone away!
--This video changed my life. I started taking Benfotiamine this week after watching this video and it fixed symptoms that years of taking thyroid meds and consulting one endocrinologist after the next didn’t address.
--I just want to say thank you for spreading this information. Life has change ever since supplementing B1. My POTS brought on by COVID and ADHD symptoms has improved dramatically. No more chronic fatigue, brain fog, my memory is amazing now. I never had a good memory before. I’m considering coming off my ADHD medication. Also my heart rate is normal some days without medication, its been less than a month btw. I’m not lying when I say this is the most energetic and happy I ever felt. Thank you once again.
--I was pre-diabetic and started getting frequent urination and neuropathy, started high doses B1, B-complex, Mg, and Benfotiamine, and found out about low 2.5mg doses of Cialis for Prostatitis symptoms. My chronic hemorrhoids magically went away, frequent urination gone, neuropathy gone, energy restored, mental clarity restored! I had no idea that all these colon issues and other health systems in the body were connected to B1.
--Benfotiamine has outperformed TTFD at increasing thiamine levels in the brain in trials and demonstrated higher bioavailability. It was also effective at reducing amyloid deposition in the brain, whereas TTFD was not.
--Eliot's own site has a link to a Japanese study that says that, but Eliot also says he doesn't agree with it.
--I've had severe fibromyalgia for 37 years and really appreciate how you call it what it really seems to be, dysautonomia. Before seeing your videos and due to neuropathy, I have been taking 150 mg Benfotiamine for several years with no change. I recently raised it to 600 mg and it helped my neuropathy some. I raised it to 1,200 mgs. and that is helping the depression, and I would do just about anything to ease that, since it is far worse than my worst physical symptoms.
The problem is that my neuropathy was originally caused by B6 toxicity from taking a B50 complex that was prescribed for me. B6 does build up in the body, unlike the other B vitamins, and I have been told by the neurologist to never, ever take more than the RDA of B6 again. She said she wished she had a dollar for every case of B6 poisoning she'd treated that year! It took a year of severe insomnia and other symptoms for the pain to even become bearable, so I am afraid to take B complex again, but realize I cannot continue to take such high doses of thiamine without taking a whole B complex also. Has anyone else had this issue and if so, what did you do to handle it?
I still have the alpha-delta sleep disorder common in fibromyalgia. High dose B1 did not help my sleep, but I finally found something that does. I now take 100 mg Seriphos an hour before bed and I sleep about 7 hours per night (vs under 4 hours)! It may not help everyone, but if your illness has caused a lot of stress in your life, your cortisol may be high and this will help it. L-theanine and Ashwagandha can also help, but not as much and ashwagandha can be bad for those with hypothyroidism that often accompanies fibromyalgia. If you try Seriphos, make sure it is the real thing, the bottle with the red triangle in the top left corner of the label. The product should be phosphorylated serine, NOT phosphytidal serine. you can take up to 300 mg/day if needed.
I was averaging a bit less than 4 hours per night before adding Seriphos. Some nights I got no sleep at all. The Alpha-delta sleep anomaly occurs when alpha waves intrude on deep sleep so you do not get enough of it. If it is really bad, as it is for me, you wake up about every 90 minutes, when each sleep cycle ends. Others have momentary awakenings they don't even realize are occurring. without deep sleep, your body cannot repair itself properly, your muscles ache, you have little energy, you tend to have some degree of dysregulation of your autonomic nervous system, with all the downstream effects of that.
--Greetings from Germany. A thousand thanks for your information about thiamine. I started since one week to take every day 250mg Thiamin HCI vegan best quality, plus magnesium. The following agonies are already resolved after one week: severe chronic arthritic knee pain, heavy legs especially in the evening, numb feet, general fatigue. Of course I do daily exercise anyway, sports, gymnastics. I have as a pensioner unfortunately not so much money to purchase your protocol pdf, but I just wanted to thank you very much.
--I've been doing this to combat long covid induced Parkinson's and I'll confirm that symptoms get worse for a few weeks before it gets better, I better slowly
--Hey, I developed symptoms that could be related to Parkinson's roughly at the time I got my first shot. Would you mind describing me what you experienced and how you treat your symptoms?
--I started taking 600mg Benfotiamine w 1000 mg TMG along w Quicksilver methyl B, lots of MG and K citrate before bed. It pushed my liver to detox ...caused a bad headache... but it shot my HRV up 20 points on my Whoop. I dropped the Benfotiamine and TMG in half and felt great and the HRV went up even a bit more. There's something to this!
--HRV heart rate variability is an indicator of health and used to assess the body's ability to recover.
--I felt awful on 100mg B1 and was so jittery and anxious I got scared and stopped taking it. I will split the capsule and start again.
--I felt the same way when I started, even on a very low dose (10-20mg of benfo). What worked for me was taking a small dose, waiting for the reaction to wear off (up to 2 days) and then repeating. with each dose, the reaction became less and eventually I felt better taking it and was able to start upping the dose with positive side effects.
--roughly 3 weeks in so far and after taking vit C, K, Mg and starting Benfotiamine (300mg) and Thiamine (100mg) 7 day/30 day avg blood glucose has dropped by 20-25% (cgm) even though i did not change what I'm eating or increased/changed exercising (or other meds).
--Magnesium is excellent for anxiety, especially because it helps B1 absorb properly. Apparently some Thiamine side effects are simply magnesium deficiency. Interestingly, some studies have suggested that magnesium deficiency may contribute to the development of thiamine side effects. This is because magnesium is essential for the proper absorption of thiamine. When magnesium levels are low, the body may not be able to effectively absorb thiamine, leading to a functional deficiency of this vitamin. In other words, some of the symptoms that may appear as thiamine deficiency could actually be due to an underlying magnesium deficiency that is impairing thiamine absorption.
High Dose Thiamine Basic Guide: Principles & guidelines of this therapy
mar 2025
What is thiamine?
Thiamine (aka vitamin B1) is an essential water-soluble vitamin that plays a crucial role in how cells make energy. It is also very important for how nerves send messages throughout the body, and how the brain makes specific neurochemicals.
It is found in a variety of foods in low amounts: meats, organs, legumes, whole grains
What does thiamine do? what does a deficiency look like?
It is a key cofactor for enzymes involved in converting carbohydrates/fats/proteins into ATP, the body's primary energy source. Thiamine is especially needed for production of the neurotransmitter acetylcholine. It is therefore extremely important for the autonomic nervous system, and maintaining the balance between sympathetic and parasympathetic modes.
From a conventional standpoint, a severe deficiency is known to affect the brain, heart, peripheral nerves, and gut.
However, a mild deficiency can lead to a wide variety of NON SPECIFIC symptoms, which vary from person to person:
Fatigue, brain fog, nerve pain, muscle pain, insomnia, anxiety, restlessness, autonomic nervous system problems/dysautonomia (blood pressure imbalances, vertigo, circulation problems, heart rate problems, body temperature dysregulation), SIBO, stomach acidity imbalances, constipation, sometimes diarrhea, intestinal permeability and any number of functional gut disorders.
What causes a deficiency
There are many potential causes. Thiamine status depends on carbohydrate intake, meaning the more carbs/sugar someone consumes, the greater demand for thiamine.
- High intake of refined carbohydrate/refined foods
- Alcohol destroys thiamine
- Tannins (not caffeine) in tea/coffee inactivate thiamine
- Medications: Metronidazole/flagyl, metformin, diuretics, omeprazole
- Sulfites destroy thiamine
- Chronic gut conditions which involve nutrient malabsorption/gut inflammation
- Any state of prolonged physical stress (excessive exercise, critical illness, hyperthyroid, etc)
In short, there are numerous things which can lead to a deficiency.
A classical deficiency can be fairly straightforward to treat, but can take several months (depending on severity of the deficiency)
However, there are also many individuals who don't display the risk factors, but respond to high-doses of thiamine. Here is where we will discuss the concept of "functional" or "localized" deficiency
What is a “Functional” or "Localized" deficiency?
This occurs in people who have normal systemic levels of thiamine in their body. However, certain regions of the body can experience a localized deficiency.
For example, in neurodegenerative diseases, the research suggests localized "deficiency" in the brain.
Without going into the mechanistic details, this can occur for various reasons, and can either be due to problems with transporting thiamine into the brain and into the cells. Or it can be related to problems with enzymes in cells which use thiamine.
It can occur in the heart, the brain, the gut, etc.
In this scenario, taking normal doses of thiamine is not enough. For people to see improvements in their condition, they generally require anywhere from 300-2000x the RDA (300mg to 2000mg, depending on the form and absorbability of thiamine used)
Here is where blood testing/functional testing becomes useless, because it doesn't measure what is going on at the organ/cell level of the affected area.
Are tests useful?
In general, no. They reflect recent intake for the most part. Even specialized tests like eTKA does not reflect what is occurring at the organ-tissue level (see above paragraph)
Basic thiamine protocol
Simple principles to follow:
- Pick a form of thiamine
- A B complex
- A form of magnesium
- An electrolyte supplement or additional potassium (either in supplement, or as coconut water)
Different forms of thiamine:
Thiamine HCL/mononitrate - Cheap but not well absorbed. Can be useful in high doses above 500mg
Benfotiamine - well absorbed and gets into brain, good for peripheral neuropathy, diabetes, body pain, fatigue, alzheimers. Usually dosed between 150-2100mg
TTFD (thiamine tetrahydrofurfuryl disulfide) - well absorbed and gets into brain - best for gut issues of any kind, POTS/dysautonomia and mood issues. Also good for fatigue, and neuropathy. Contains sulfur, so can trigger unwanted symptoms in some people.
Molybdenum often helps this. Usually dosed between 100-500mg
Basic Protocol
- Start low and go slow with whichever form of B1 (think 10-50mg).
- Take B complex, magnesium and potassium source.
- Gradually increase dose of thiamine over the space of days/weeks.
- Watch for changes in symptoms. As increasing the dose, symptoms can get temporarily worse (called the paradoxical effect). If symptoms worsen, stay at current dose until they return to baseline.
- When symptoms return to baseline, work on increasing dose again.
Which brands to use?
It doesn't actually matter which brand you use.
I formulate supplements specifically for the purpose of "high dose thiamine" protocols, which are sold by my company Objective Nutrients https://www.objectivenutrients.com/products/
However, I repeat: you can use whichever brand as long it contains what is stated on the label.
Key points
Sometimes people can take weeks/months to reach a dose that provides resolution in symptoms. Have patience.
Thiamine is non-toxic. However, people often have a form which suits them best, and this should be experimented with.
Each form does something slightly different. Mixing forms can be beneficial.
This therapy likely only works in a MINORITY of people, although we don't know the exact number. If trialled for a few months and no change, it might not be for you. That's OK - it was worth a try!
This is a BASIC guide and is a super condensed/simplified version of the full protocols in the proper guide. However, for most, it should work.
That said, for people with complex health conditions, they often need to juggle some other things. Diet, other supplements, other therapies etc. There is complexity, and way beyond the scope of this introductory post. For that, i would recommend my PDF guide here:
Thiamine Deficiency Protocols & Addressing Nutrient Interactions - https://thiamineprotocols.com
Conclusion
Hopefully this post provides you with enough information to get started. It should not be overly complex, and is quite simple for the majority of people.
So many people ask me questions and want consultations, but as many already know I am not taking anyone new on at the moment. To address this problem, I put most of what I know about the clinical application of thiamine into one document.
In the first section it covers:
- Different forms of supplemental thiamine
- An explanation of the “paradoxical reaction” and how to manage it
- Step-by-step protocols on starting thiamine supplementation for both sensitive & non-sensitive individuals
- Step-by-step protocols for mega-dosing different forms of thiamine (HCL and derivatives)
-Recommended co-factors to support thiamine repletion
-Example protocols for 17 different health conditions including:
- Hypochlorhydria, GERD, dysmotility & gastroparesis,
- Cholestasis, liver & gallbladder dysfunction,
- Intestinal Permeability, SIBO/IBS-Constipation
- Neuroinflammation, neuropathy & nerve pain
- Brain-fog, lack of concentration or depersonalization
- Parkinson’s Disease, Multiple Sclerosis & Huntington’s Disease
- Postural Orthostatic Tachycardia Syndrome
- Cardiovascular diseases/heart failure/angina/hypertension
- Type 2 diabetes
- Fibromyalgia
- Chronic Fatigue Syndrome/Myalgic Encephalomyelitis
- Interstitial cystitis / Bladder dysfunction
- Premenstrual syndrome
The second part is titled: "Addressing the paradoxical reaction and identifying nutritional imbalances" and covers:
- Problems with thiamine testing, and a list of tests which may indicate deficiency
- Identification of the most common symptoms experienced with thiamine supplementation (paradoxical reaction).
- Which symptoms suggest an increased demand for different nutrients, and how to manage that with which nutritional supplements
- How to test for and identify deficiencies of these nutritional cofactors in blood and urine (organic acids testing)
- Interpretation of common test markers associated with nutritional insufficiency
- Guidance on which forms of nutrients are best to supplement with and at what dose
thiamineprotocols.com
Thiamine Protocols & Nutritional Interactions ($55)
Detailed guidance on how to mega-dose thiamine, which nutritional cofactors can be needed, along with how to identify underlying nutritional imbalances through symptoms and testing.
comments
Janet Shimmin
I bought the protocol, but need to read it a few more times to take it all in. At first pass, I didn't find the answer to a question I have about TTFD. I have been taking 500 mg TTFD (Benfotiamine and Allithiamine) for about 6 months, with great results. As TTFD is not water soluble like other B vits, should I be concerned about build-up in my body?
EONutrition: TTFD and benfo are not "fat soluble" in the way that vitamin D is. It is referred to as fat soluble because it passes membranes. It is does not store or accumulate in tissue
Cindi Long
I have everything up there except premenstrual syndrome! And my neurological issue isn't Parkinsons or MS but idiopathic intermittent ataxia - same basic class of disorders. So does that mean I don't need to buy the protocols, because which one would I follow? I'm basically kidding - it's amazingly valuable info! I'm just stunned that I'm 55 with every specialist on my case except oncology, for the last 3 decades, and nobody ever tested B1.
Samantha May
Elliot, congratulations on a well put together guide. In reading through the protocols, one piece of information that would be helpful is the breakdown of B vitamin amounts that are ideal for supplementation. B complexes vary widely in the amounts of each and some do not contain niacin etc. Can you share information on what the composition of your Thiavite B complex will be, so that patients can purchase comparable formulas until yours becomes available? this would also be helpful for those with elevated levels of one B vitamin ie. B6, who may need to purchase the others separately to avoid continued elevation in that particular nutrient. Also wondering if patients are able to obtain IV thiamine does this bypass the mechanisms responsible for side effects seen through PO supplementation?
Whitney Rife
How do you measure small amounts of thiamine HCL? Even the powder gives a huge dose for an 1/8 tsp. My medical scale doesn’t work since it’s too small an amount.
Dustin Duewel: need a gram/milligram scale. Amazing for 20 bucks
Whitney Rife: I got one but it’s not sensitive enough for some reason. 20mg powder didn’t register on it.
Dustin Duewel: you can get tiny measuring scoops: BPA-Free, Versatile Micro Scoop Variety 3pk. Get 1 of Each Size 6-10mg, 10-15mg, And 25-30 Milligrams Measuring Spoons. Mess-Free Nootropic Supplement Powder Measurement. Best Value Capsule Spoons!
Sally Aponte
I started taking TTDF but noticed I wake up feeling stiff, especially the fingers. How can I get around that and why would it increase body stiffness? Does it mean I need more methyl donors or more potassium?
Miriam All
I have every marker for thiamine deficiency but also a condition no doctor has ever been able to figure out; the entire left side of my body is almost always like ice. Freezing and pale. And everything from the middle to the right side is warm. The left side is always in pain and with problems. Right side is more normal. Is this also a thiamine issue?
EONutrition: Sounds like some kind of dysautonomia
Lee Sallustio
Hi any reference in your book to PANS/PANDAS and in ability to sweat? (mold detox using a sauna but barely able to sweat)
Dustin Duewel: that’s how I was with mold. No sweat even when working out hard. Mold lowers electrolytes via hormones. So eat more salt especially (sodium), but also get more potassium, magnesium, etc. keep detoxing mold and doing saunas and you’ll sweat again.
Karin Christ
In one of your gastrointestinal protocols, nicotinic acid is recommended. Does it need to be nicotinic acid or will niacinamide work?
EONutrition:Either
Mara Hodgkin
Why is thiamine mononitrate not recommended?
EONutrition: Because it is not much effective
Glen Monks
Is part 1 and 2 the whole package?
EONutrition: Yeah, they are both contained within the same document
The Gut Healer
any tips for feeling gassy and constipated after TTDF. It's working great for EMF sensitivity at 300 mg and would like to stay at that dose, but the constipation is an issue.
EONutrition: It should be doing the opposite. Consider bile-acid support and pantothenic acid 500-1500mg
Scar Lett
wouldn't thiamine flare-up for people with interstitial cystitis? how do you get around that?
EON: TTFD often does the opposite.